Brochin Throws Support Behind Same-Sex Marriage Bill
Previously citing qualms with the word "marriage," the senator now plans to vote in favor of the bill.
Sen. Jim Brochin said that when his amendment to create civil unions fails in committee he will for same-sex marraige.
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Sen. Jim Brochin said Thursday he will vote in favor of a bill that would legalize same-sex marriage in Maryland.
Brochin, a member of the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee, said he was disturbed by testimony of opponents of the bill during a hearing Tuesday.
"I walked into committee and what I heard from the opposition to the bill was appalling," Brochin said. "It was disgusting. I heard that homosexuals and same-sex couples were androids. I heard that they were pedophiles. I just heard hate and venom coming out of that hearing for eight hours."
Previously, Brochin has opposed same-sex marriage bills. He cited use of the word "marriage" as a reason for his opposition.
The Democratic senator from Towson said this year he had planned on introducing an civil union amendment to the same-sex marriage bill. He said he still plans to offer that amendment.
"I know I don't have the votes for that amendment, and when the amendment fails, I am going to vote for gay marriage," Brochin said. "I'm going to vote for gay marriage because the stumbling block with the word 'marriage' is my stumbling block, and it's my problem."
"I'm not going to be part of the vilification of gays on the senate floor," Brochin said. "I'm uncomfortable with the word ;marriage; but I am much more uncomfortable with the vilification of gays and homosexuality."
Buzz Beeler
12:35 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Despite what side the isle you are escorted to, I give Sen. Brochin credit for having the courage to stand up and speak his mind.
In the end it will all boil down to what side of the church the voters sit on.
Tom Barnes
8:30 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
Fortunately, the church doesn't get a vote and we cannot right laws based on people's religious beliefs (neediness). When EVERY person gets to vote on EVERY other persons marriage, then we can play the religion card. My religion approves of gay rights and same gender marriage. So, one would need to ask if this is a political issue or religious issue - the answer would be religious and THAT means that banning it in the name of religion is against the law. It's funny that American's are still unable to handle BEING Americans. That precious Constitution we cling to we seem to only cling to when it is an issue that supports our own person and personal beliefs. What a shame.
Trish D
12:58 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
So he is going against his own belief because of some name calling from opposition to a bill?! I think he is in the wrong profession if this is all it takes for him change his mind.
Neversure
2:21 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
With all due respect, that type of rhetoric is way past name-calling. These are elected officials speaking in serious meetings in the foulest terms about their constituents, the people they are sworn to represent. The representatives might not understand the situations of these constituents, but they owe them respect. Sen. Brochin was correct in not aligning himself with that side of the committee.
rhonda depietro
9:26 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Trish i have to agree with you,there is a lot of true in what is written that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Tom Barnes
8:41 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
Trish and Rhonda - Would you believe the man was so horrible if we were discussing inter-racial marriage? Where perhaps those members of the committee were calling blacks the "n" word, or Asians the "c" word; Or perhaps hispanics the "s" word? Or how about something where it were about women's rights and women were just referred to as the "b" word? I know that when I am put in a position where people are degraded - regardless of my belief - that I will stand up for the underdog. So one more question for you two ladies: Let's say that you yourself do NOT believe that homosexuality is something to be condone, yet you do not 'pick on' gay people. Now, let's say that you have a child that turns out to be gay. Add to that a bully - who because of religious belief feels he is entitled to harrass and/or beat your child up - would you allow your own belief to stand in the way of protecting your child?? This is NO different. EXCEPT we pay this man to protect all of us.
Neversure
1:21 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Sen. Brochin, I voted for you in November. You have made me proud that I did. The deep-seated discrimination against gays and their right to live unpersecuted in our community today has to stop. This is but one step. Thank you, sir.
K Blue
1:43 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Sen. Brochin's and Sen. Kittleman's public statements show that they understand the real issue presented and that personal opinions, preferences and prejudices about religion and sexual orientation should play no part in their decision as legislators on this equal rights bill. They can cast their ballot with the rest of us at a referendum based on those.
Buzz Beeler
4:57 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Nevesure and K Blue, some real common sense comments based on reality. How does the government legislate ones sexual preference between law-abiding adults.
Does the 30's come to mind in Germany? Hitler's disdain for gays was quite evident and lead to thousands of deaths starting with the brown shirt leadership.
Maureen Sweeney Smith
1:53 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Senator Brochin, congratulations on making the right decision and being brave enough to step forward on such a decisive issue. Those of us who have brothers, uncles, sons, fathers and friends who are gay know the importance of speaking out against the hatred and misconceptions these anti-marriage spew. I'm confident that your leadership in this action will be part of your legacy of making Maryland a better place for all citzens
CKnick
9:55 am on Monday, February 14, 2011
Love you Mo!! Thanks for your support!
I just hope that Sen. Kasemeyer is "brave" enough to do the same thing. Up till now he has said that he is "undecided".
fred4401
3:09 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
@ K blue, Keeping religion out of politics is what got this country into the mess it is in now. This country was founded on religous issues and over the years this country has pushed God out. Some may ask : why does God let these things happen , such as kids shooting kids in schools and even hurracanes. well ! you asked him to get out and he did. Our God is a loving God and I don't think he hates Gays . God loves everyone. He does not like homosexualty. It does say so in the Bible. I am not in his dist. and I am Glad . I am watching who votes what way , and I will remember. Just because you do not believe the same way does NOT make you prejudice.
K Blue
3:23 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Fred, I agree with your last statement. But, I also think the legislators, in a system predicated on separation of church and state, should look at this bill as an equal rights issue, pass it and then let it go to referendum for the voters to decide. Otherwise, legislators who vote based on their religious and personal opinions about homosexuality are imposing their views on those constituents of theirs who do not agree. If a legislator votes agains this bill, in my opinion, its like saying that they don't believe that gays or lesbians are a person entitled to equal rights. Its not about homosexuality. I think it needs to go to referendum where everyone, including the legislators, can cast their ballot and a majority opinion decides. It shouldnt rest in the hands of 24 people.
Buzz Beeler
5:07 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Fred, religion has a basis in forming the morality of this nation. There is also an appropriate separation of church and state.
Based on your statement that God does not hate gays and loves everyone, but does not like homosexuality, is an oxymoron.
How can a country push out God when the relationship is supposed to be personal.
You ask the question why does God let these things happen is a good question that will take more space than Patch has to answer.
Tom Barnes
8:50 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
Fred - please do not profess to know what God does and does not like. You don't know for sure about ANYTHING as it is related to God. My religion says that God doesn't hate gay people - that He loves everyone - based on, most likely, the EXACT same scripture that your religion uses to professes a God of hate and destruction. Our forefathers didn't throw Bibles and crosses into the Boston harbor. They threw in tea and coffee. We didn't separate and form a new nation based on religion - it was because of other reasons.... YOU CANNOT CHANGE HISTORY. Even those that came before our forefathers were here to escape religious PERSECUTION - not to setup a new nation based on Christianity. Here is a little something you should think about and memorize: “You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.”
Tom Barnes
8:53 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
K Blue - Send it to a referendum when EVER person gets to vote on EVERY persons marriage. When we start allowing citizens to vote on other's rights we are on a slippery slope that says we no longer a Republic nor a Democracy.
K Blue
8:56 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
Tom, I dont follow what you are saying here. Are you for or against a referendum?
Tom Barnes
9:25 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
K Blue - I am 100% in favor of the bill. I am not in favor of people voting on others peoples rights. If we are going to vote on gays rights to marry then we should be voting on whether straights can marry as well. And to go a step further, when you put a particular peoples civil liberties up for a vote, then you need to put EVERYONES up for a vote.
K Blue
9:38 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
Tom, I think you and I see things differently. I see the original law defining marriage as between a man and a woman as the real "super rights" law by giving special consideration to others, to the exclusion of others, on the basis of religion. I see this gay-marriage bill as an equalizer. Why was the original law upheld? All the talk of furthering procreation doesnt pan ou anymore in today's society. What about married herterosexual couples who choose not to have children. What about the heterosexual married couples who cannot have children. Should they be denied the rights afforded to married hereosexual couples because they dont further a state interest in procreation? These are the questions I ask myself.
The law provides for a referendum following passage. Whether it is susceptible to a referendum is another matter for the courts. My gut tells me no, its not. There really cannot be equal rights for all under these circumstances unless we live in a theocracy.
Toucan Sam
3:33 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
umm Fred, this country was NOT founded on religious issues. Our founding fathers were pretty clear in their disdain for organized religion (they were all Deists or agnostic), and they were especially clear to keep religion out of government. Every now and then there is a movement to put more religion in government (the temperance movement in the early 1900's for example), but religion has NEVER been at the basis of our government. But you may be interested to know that at one time the entire world was run by religious leaders and religion permeated every aspect of society. You may have heard of this period of time, we refer to it today as the Dark Ages...
rhonda depietro
9:21 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
I'M NOT SURE WHERE YOUR INFO WAS OBTAINED CONCERNING OUR FOUNDING FATHERS BELIEF'S, OR WHAT VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE THIS INFO WAS GATHERED FROM..BUT THIS IS FALSE.
JT
4:22 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
@KBlue - I agree with most of your comments except with putting this to a referendum. This is a civil and equal rights issue - bigoted voters or those with "religious beliefs have no say in determining whether a certain group of people/citizens should be excluded from the rights afforded most of society. I also commend Senator Brochin's stand on this issue. Gay marriage should be legal in this and every state.
K Blue
5:05 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
If it goes to referendum, it would be by petition. I guess I should have made that more clear in my response. The issue needs to be decided on the merits in the courts.
Tim Walstrum
7:37 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
K Blue,
This is where I have an issue. The rights of anyone should not be up for a vote. Should people have been able to vote to ban interracial marriage? How about allowing slavery? There are certain things that shouldn't be voted on.
K Blue
8:38 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Tim, I understand what you are saying but until the legislature passes this bill and until the courts decide that what you say is the case (if it ever gets a case before it via referendum) no progress will be made (unless no referendum is sought). IMHO, legislators should set aside their religious opinions on this matter and make a decision on the equal rights issue. It cannot be disputed that there is a pervasive attitude of discrimination against a specific group of people who ae citizens on the basis of orientation. Question is whether our legislators will take a stand. If they don't pass this bill, it goes no where (until next year I assume).
K Blue
8:55 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Tim, in short, this issue will never rest until it brought before the courts. The ball needs to roll. By not passing this bill, the legislature is preventing a necessary course of action and I think it is a real shame if legislators vote on this bill on the basis of their religious beliefs.
Neversure
7:44 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Tim: Good point. That's why we're a Representative Republic, NOT a pure democracy.
Buzz Beeler
7:46 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Tim, the right to vote is an issue. We voted on the death penalty, abortion, war, and so on.
What things should we as a Democracy not vote on?
Prior to WWII there were those who did not want to enter the war. FDR won and the rest was decided by history.
Who makes those choices? If not the people, Democracy will cease to exist and the dictator will decide what's best for the people, or in this case the subjects.
Neversure
7:54 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Buzz..I'm not getting you. We did not vote on the death penalty, abortion, war and so on. Our representatives decide these things. We elect our representatives. They have been chosen by us to do what we desire. Every few years, depending on their decisions, we then get to decide if we want to let them keep their jobs. In choosing who goes and who stays, THAT'S where the majority rules. That's where our votes count.
Tim Walstrum
7:59 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
So Buzz should we be allowed to vote to re-institute slavery. How about outlaw religion? No these are rights people have and we as a public should have no right to vote to deny people rights? It's the main arguments in the Prop 8 case in CA and it's why it was not allowed to go to referendum in DC.
Buzz Beeler
8:26 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Tim, the process works when people vote at the polls and the courts decide whether its constitutional.
Some forms of religion are outlawed in this country. Sharia Law for example. We do not allow honor killings or stoning despite the religious beliefs.
There were attempts to make Sharia become law in one state and it was defeated. Many laws are passed but overturned by the courts.
The law is subjective. Interpretations can be varied. Look at the court system.
As a police officer I was on the legislative review committee for the department. Some of the bills presented for consideration were at best ludicrous.
That is why we have three branches of government. Checks and balances.
Tim, how would you decide what and who decides what should go to referendum?
This is the case you were speaking of. As I stated, it was voted on by the people and decided by the courts. That is how the system works.
http://thinksb.com/2010/08/washington-dc-celebrates-and-reflects-after-prop-8-is-overturned/
We vote to deny rights of people (in some opinions) all of the time. Speed cameras come to mind, convicted felons, illegals and people who serve in the military but are considered under the law, to young to drink.
Buzz Beeler
8:38 pm on Thursday, February 10, 2011
Neversure, I'm not getting it either. I can't remember what the status was and how it came about.
After a while I suffer from information overload.
I was trying to illustrate to Tim that the system of Democracy has checks and balances. If enough signatures are gathered on a ballot then the decision is left up to the voters and subsequent challenges by others are brought through the courts.
AZ in now suing the federal government. Tit for tat.
sid
1:43 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
You will see the folly of supporting gay marriage. The Gay lobby will push for gay education in schools. Gay statewide holidays. Sex change operations paid by our tax dollars. Gender neutral bathrooms. You will see the folly of your ways.
Neversure
11:26 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
sid: these items are a straw man. Besides....there are gender neutral bathrooms. They are prevalent is smaller establishments. They have a lock on the door.
coupdefoudre
11:46 am on Monday, February 14, 2011
GAY STATEWIDE HOLIDAYS?? OMG they'll force us into the streets to parade and celebrate GAYNESS!
CKnick
11:53 am on Monday, February 14, 2011
Sid,
You give us Gays too much credit! We just want to have equal rights. World Domination is not on our agenda. Don't worry! :o)
fred4401
5:43 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
well said Sid, I had not thought of it that far yet , but I think you are right.
I think the Libs. will be alright with that.
Tom Henry
8:26 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
The name-calling won't stop because a bill is passed. This should go to referendum, so that the people of Maryland can decide. The Maryland State Constitution clearly defines marriage, so unless a civil-union bill passes, any same-sex marriage bill is illegal.
My larger fear is similar to what has happened in Massachusetts and other states. Support of gay marriage became a "super-rights" issue for one group. More rights for one group over another is NOT what our founders intended.
Toucan Sam
9:05 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
Tom, is that why they made sure that only white, land owning males could vote or make decisions? Because they didn't want one group to have more rights than another? Please. So much is always said about "the founding fathers" but judging by a lot of the comments on here, I think people need to review their American and World History. Like the lady "Rhonda" who commented on my earlier post, wondering from what part of the Bible I had gotten my information about the Dark Ages.... UMMMMM hello, the Dark Ages occured well after the Bible was written. Please people, at least have some idea of what you're talking about...The Founding Fathers were Deists, who abhorred organized religion, and generally did not trust the average American to gather enough information to make informed decisions. This is the general reason why the Electoral College was established and why there were restrictions on who could vote. The Founding Fathers recognized that not everyone is capable of intelligent debate and making critical decisions. Quite simply, they realized the danger in allowing EVERYONE (scholars and idiots alike) to have a say on matters. Read something written by Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, or even better, Alexander Hamilton. You will find their disdain for religion, especially organzied religion, as plain as day.
Tom Barnes
9:32 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
Tom Henry - let me ask yo ua question about Massachusetts...and please answer honestly. Has their state come apart at the seams? Have straight marriages been jeopardized in some way? What exactly has gone wrong in any state in America that approves of same gender marriage? Or for that matter, in any country on the planet? Exactly how have YOUR rights been trampled on by same gender marriage? Mmmmmmmmm. Nothing. Oh wait. Except perhaps your bigotry has been trampled upon by equal rights. Gee. I don't see that as a bad thing. We can only hope that future generations that share your blood line don't share your hatred and bigotry.
Buzz Beeler
10:21 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
Tom Henry, are you speaking of illegal immigration.
Establish a law through the proper channels, vote on it, allow for court challenges and then follow it.
For without law and order there is chaos, no matter what the issues may be.
One case in point. Remember the MD State Board of Censors? Three people decided what the rest of us adults could view. The theory was if not for the wisdom of these three people on the board, we would all go blind.
The board has long been abolished, and I can see clearly now. I did not go blind.
Does anyone seriously believe that we are going to change the lifestyles of individuals, that somehow we are going to legislate their behavior.
If they believe that, than how come prostitution has been around since the days of the Bible?
Robert Armstrong
10:47 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
Sharia Law isn't outlawed. It's just not the law commonly accepted here. They are plenty of people following Sharia in the US.
I didn't realize that there were so many adherents of Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist CHurch around here.
Toucan Sam
11:12 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
Buzz, you and I have sparred often on these forums, but I must say that your last comment was very well said and I agree with you wholeheartedly. Your comment about prositution is particularly insightful and cutting. Kudos.
Toucan Sam
11:14 am on Friday, February 11, 2011
*prostitution
Buzz Beeler
12:15 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Sam, my articulation may be acceptable but my spelling sucks. Besides, at my age if I use the word again I won't remember how to spell it anyway.
Trish D
2:28 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Prostitution is illegal - right? So, are you comparing it to legalized gay marriage? One thing that you scholars seem to leave out about the Constitution and our Founding Fathers is "Natural Law" - law or body of laws that derives from nature and is believed to be binding upon human actions apart from or in conjunction with laws established by human authority. It is overwhelmingly "Natural" for a man and woman, male - female relationship. So the question is, is a gay relationship natural? Some may argue that it is, but there is also that argument that reproduction would play a big part in "Natural Law", can a female-female or male-male reproduce naturally?
Not that I think I know more about the Founding Fathers than others ; but all of us biased (not bigoted) people who read the likes of Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, or Alexander Hamilton we seem to remember the parts we agree with and forget all the other stuff. Don't you agree Toucan?
Toucan Sam
2:51 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Of course we remember certain things, but saying that our Country was founded on religious principles or that organized religion used to be a big part of our country, is just completely inaccurate. It's the exact opposite. And yes Natural Law is an interesting component, but the key is that it is apart from or in conjunction with laws established by human authority. Not all of our laws are Natural Law, nor is Natural Law a key threshold or point of contention that Laws must pass in order to become official. So regardless of whether you believe gay relationships are natural or not, it doesn't really have any bearing on the argument. Equality for all comes first. It doesn't say "Equality for all things that people at the time deem to be natural, but this designation of natural is subject to contemporary pressures and may change over the course of time"
fred4401
4:26 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
I will be happy to take all the money that you don't want in that case as it says " in God we trust" on it . Why in our plege it says One Nation under God. I can find more .
Trish D
3:24 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
What does Divine Providence mean to you? and would we find that in any of the Founding Fathers writings? and equality for all; how does a gay man have unequal right from any other man? He can equally marry a woman the same as any other man; the same is true for any woman. By your definition of equal, anything goes. Can a man legally marry his biological sister? How about their own children? Or multiple woman. They currently have the same writes as any other man, they are just not willing to accept them. As stated above by sid: "The Gay lobby will push for gay education in schools. Gay statewide holidays. Sex change operations paid by our tax dollars. Gender neutral bathrooms." That would make things unequal!
Tim Walstrum
8:09 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Trish let's also remember that our Founding Fathers also owned slaves. They also do not allow women to vote or anyone who didn't own land. Again you people romanticize people who were not always the finest people. They also slaughtered many Native Americans.
Trish D
3:27 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
*rights
fred4401
4:10 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Ok Ronda , I took the time to find the passages from the bible for you .
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (New International Version, ©2010)
9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
Leviticus 18:22 (New International Version, ©2010)
22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13 (New International Version, ©2010)
13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Romans 1:27 (New International Version, ©2010)
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. These are just a few that most do not read.
CKnick
10:01 am on Monday, February 14, 2011
Man wrote the bible, not God!
fred4401
4:10 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
As for our forefathers of this country: Did they not come here to escapre the persacution of english rule after the king of england seprated from the cathlic church. This came about after the Pope and the bishop and carnels and so forth decided what part of the bible would be cannonized for us to read , the rest of it as far as I know was lost to history
Kiel McLaughlin
11:47 am on Monday, February 14, 2011
You do know that the "forefathers" of the United States aren't the pilgrims... they are Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and those that wrote, signed and implemented the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. These individuals were diests, agnostics and intent on keeping religion separate from government.
fred4401
4:21 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Hey Buzz, I'm with you on the spelling even if we don't agree on anything or something else. I will defend anyone's right to say their views , that is part of what makes our country so great.
I think anyone would agree that when it get's nasty , name calling and personal attacks it needs to stop.
I will also respect the views of others and I expect to get the same in return.
Buzz Beeler
6:49 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Fred, thanks. Blame my father, God rest his soul. He was a paratrooper in WWII and along with my now 90 year old mother, worked real hard to put my brother and I through school.
In those days, penmanship, grammar and sentence diagramming were paramount. Needless to say the question was, "do you homework yet?" The followup went something like, "are you sure, that didn't take long?"
Fred if you messed up, the nuns would whack you (gently) with a ruler and they you had that long walk home to face pop.
The other part of the respect issue was always using, Mr. or Mrs., yes sir and no mam, and if you didn't do that, the whack was a little louder then that of the nuns.
What ever happened to those days? Like my father, I miss them!
Sean Tully
4:34 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Brochin most likely has his eyes on a run for governor in 2014 and he his stance on this issue is designed to reach the reasonable people of the state. What a novel idea.
fred4401
4:51 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
I want to be clear on what you are saying. If you don't go along with his thinking , then you are unreasonable?
Sean Tully
5:12 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Fred, I didn't comment on the people that disagree with Brochin. I don't know if they are unreasonable or what. I just think that reasonable people don't worry too much about who someone may love and wants to marry.
Robert Armstrong
5:04 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Our "Forefathers" came here for a plethora of reasons. Some came shackled in slave ships. Georgia was a penal colony
Buzz Beeler
7:09 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Does anyone remember this man? He is dead now, but not his message! Warning, it may bring a tear to your eye.
http://media.causes..com/604250?p_id=42563578
rhonda depietro
7:52 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
I agree Buzz, i too miss thosedays. Before the internet,PC or mac,cell phones,dvd's,e-mails or voice mail.When my mom or dad would stand on the porch and yell or whistle for us to come home for dinner. When any parent would correct a child on their misconduct and we listened and nothing was said.We were taught to respect GOD and others. If we missbehaved in school and sent to the principles office was nothing compared to the fate that awaited you at home.Water balloons were the weapon of choice.....sadly times have changed
Tim Walstrum
8:04 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Yes the good old days when blacks and women knew their place. I swear people like you romanticize the past while looking past all the warts. I am reminded of Billy Joel lyrics, "the good old days weren't always good, tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems."
fred4401
10:31 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
I grew up the same way. My Dad a marine Vet from korea. and from a strong German Background. Not saying sir or mam was good enough to have the back of his hand introduced to the side of your head. How would you like to be told " Boy, I want you to go get me a switch from that willow tree for me to beat your tail with. and it better be a good one , cause if it breaks and I have to get one it is going to be worse.
I respect my Father to this day. he is in rehab after a stroke and i would do anything for that man.
At last , here is one thing we have all agreed on.
God Bless you all . and prayers will be going out
rhonda depietro
8:21 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Tim didn't mean to get your "undies " in a bunch there.No one is ignoring the issues of the past or present...just nice to remember a simpler era
Trish D
8:56 pm on Friday, February 11, 2011
Tim- there is good and bad to every generation but you seem to only see the bad from our past - there are a lot of countries still fighting those very issues you mentioned above. I am an Amercian and dam proud of it, there is no other country in the world as awesome as the one I live in!
Buzz Beeler
11:05 am on Monday, February 14, 2011
CNick, you are absolutely correct and that is why there are many contradictions in the teachings.
Man is fallible.
fred4401
11:56 am on Monday, February 14, 2011
correct ! Man wrote the Bible. Under God's direction. God wrote the Bible through Man.
Kiel McLaughlin
11:58 am on Monday, February 14, 2011
Fact is, this is not an issue of religion. The moment that the government decided to regulate the union between two individuals, marriage in that context moved from a religious ceremony to a legal standing. A marriage license is no different than a hunting license, a driving license or any other form of legal documentation an American citizen must obtain before receiving certain rights.
As proof, I challenge any Christian opposed to marriage licenses being issues to homosexual couples to follow through on the religious sacrament of marriage without filing for the license as their local courthouse. Wear your wedding ring, go on your honeymoon, but forego the tax breaks, hospital visitation rights and other luxuries you receive due to your heterosexuality. If marriage is truly a matter of faith, than relinquish your access to these rights.
Homosexuals aren't asking to get "married" in a religious sense. It's Christians that made marriage a matter of law.
fred4401
12:08 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Then call it what it is! a civil unoin NOT a Marriage.
There was some down at the hearings that went way over the edge . Talking about androids and silly things like that and made a mockery out of the whole process. THAT WAS WRONG!
And Kiel : have you ever heard of common law?
The Government does do the licences But also keeps them recorded. They don't come wiih an experation , Do They? They make money on it just like they do on anything else they can.
Kiel McLaughlin
4:15 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
I 100% agree, Fred. They should be called civil unions. The union between two individuals, of the same sex, or opposite sexes, should be called civil unions.
How would you feel if your marriage license (assuming you are married) we retroactively adjusted to be called a civil union?
fred4401
11:58 am on Monday, February 14, 2011
Don't confuse what you are thinking are contradictions beween the new and old covanent.
I have many hours reading and studying the bible as well as other texts and books.
CKnick
12:06 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
GOD is not a HATER. The bible preaches HATRED. Man wrote what he wanted to write, not God. My God loves everyone, even closeminded people that hide behind man's bible.
fred4401
12:18 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
All I can say is: in the end we will all believe in God. It's where you go after that that matters.
CKnick
1:31 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
I agree. When I am face to face with him, I feel comfortable that he will embrace me for living my life to the fullest. Will he do the same to those that preached hate and judgement? Just something to think about.
Buzz Beeler
12:55 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Keil, that's what I like. A well constructed and written response.
Despite what side of the isle you sit on in church, you comments struck a legitimate chord.
To take it a step further, enter the word, "common law," as its related to marriage, another issue recognized by the state and not the church.
Buzz Beeler
1:05 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Fred, you lost my on issues of whose by-line it is. Each passage is attributed to someone, and as far as I know when God spoke it was recorded as him speaking.
That is a whole other issue anyway.
Heather Rankin
3:20 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
People shouldn't bring God into this debate. No one can speak for God and say whether he agrees with this or disagrees. Man did write the bible not god. The God I believe in loves everyone and forgives people for things.
Creating equal right for all humans should be a right of any American, no matter who they love. Everyone is equal. Don't hate people for no reason, or because you were taught that God would hate them because God doesn't hate anyone.
fred4401
3:42 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
I do hope that you are not confusing Hate with a diffrent oppinion. I am just stating what is said in the bible. I have some friends that are gay. That is not what I believe in but that is up to them. God does speak to us ( If you listen and not interject your self ) The Bible was written by many people over hundreds of years. ,all under the authority of God. Maybe you should read more of it to see what I am talking about. If you would read the bible from the beginning it will explain a lot about everything. I may not agree with what some others do but < that is not to say I don't like or love them as a brother or sister in Christ. My God loves averyone Too , Maybe you should read back and see that instead of just jumping in.
Tim Walstrum
6:04 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Fred,
Any time someone says "I have _______ friends" whether it be black, latino, or gay you can bet the next thing out of their mouth is some bigotry. My guess you have acquaintances who you claim to be friends but I doubt they would consider you a friend.
Heather Rankin
4:19 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
I wasn't just jumping in. I read through some of the post and was stating my opinion. I wasn't accusing you of hating anyone. I've met plently of people who "hate" others because of something like this. I never accused you of this. I love hearing other peoples' opinions and I believe everyone is entitled to them.
I don't like when people tell others what god agrees with or doesn't. No one can speak for him. And I have read some of the bible.
fred4401
4:27 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
You told on yourself . Don't take this wrong . You just admitted that you read some of the articals and some of the bible. not all of them . Maybe try getting all the info first. I am not getting angry here and I am glad that you stated that it was your opinion and not reporting.
I would love to meet you for coffee sometime and witness to you in person.
The offer is on the table. God bless
CKnick
4:44 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Fred,
I do respect your opinion, really, but obviously we live in two "different" worlds. I was raised VERY Catholic. I went to Catholic School (grade, middle, high school, and college). I have read the Bible from front to back. I have gone to Bible study and was even a Church School teacher. One problem though...I was and am Gay. As a child, I knew I was different. When I realized as a young man why I was different, I looked to my religious teachings and was told that I was sick and going to hell. Can you imagine what it is like to have everything and everyone that you ever believed in tell you that you are going to hell? I don't think you do. In a way, I am very thankful that God made me Gay and not straight. I was able to leave the Church and realize that I am a great person just the way I am. It took me awhile to figure this out, but I finally did. I don't need a "book" to tell me what is right or wrong. As a human being, you should know what is right and wrong without looking it up in a book. Love is right. If I can find love in this lifetime, as I have, it doesn't matter if it is with a man or a woman. As a catholic, I was always told that God is love. I love my partner and he loves me so I know that God is with us and blesses our relationship, just as he does yours and your wife.
Just my perspective. Two different worlds.
Heather Rankin
4:58 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
I don't get how I can't just put my opinion on here like everyone else? I don't want to read the whole bible. I believe in God and him and I have our own understanding. You are free to have your religion and I'm free to have mine thanks to living in our free nation. I've had people preach to me my whole life and constantly tell me what I believe is wrong. I was raised to love everyone, and that's what I do. I respect your opinion but also want you to know I'm just posting mine. I did not single anyone out in this. Don't take this personally. I love debating about controversial things, it's just who I am.
CKnick what you posted is wonderful and I hope you get the ability soon to marry whoever you want. :)
Buzz Beeler
6:04 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Heather, does anyone really believe that they are going to change a person's sexuality?
Back in the days when I was growing up the Catholic Church treated the issue as a sin and thought confession was the answer.
Yep, that really worked well. They just forgot one important thing, each human is as different as their DNA and all the God's, laws, and whatever else comes to mind won't change that.
If that were the case we would no longer have prostitutes of johns who seek them out.
CKnick
8:39 am on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
Thank you Heather for your support! :o)
Trish D
5:11 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Equal rights - again; every man today has equal rights. Each and every man or woman has the right to a civil union, man to woman - woman to man. it is not different in any matter to each one. What the homosexual population is asking for are different rights than everyone else. A man can choose to marry a woman or not, he may choose to live with his sister for his entire life too. Does that give his sister the same rights as a legal recognized marriage; no, in fact the man that chooses to live with his sister is faced with the same legal challenges as the homosexual. He must change his will to leave all his possessions to her, he can not add her to his health insuance policy and so on. As far as the marriage license being the same as a hunting license or any other license, ok; each license we receive has specific stipulations attached. Just because I have a hunting license doesn't give me the right to hunt any animal I want, and just because I have a drivers license doesn't mean I can jump into a tractor trailer and drive in down the street.
We all make choices in our lives that we need to adjust or accept, I am not saying that you don't deserve legal protection for your joint possessions but changing the definition of marriage does not add up to EQUAL!
Killi Macklin
5:37 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Did you really just argue that homosexuality is equivalent to living with your sister?
What you are failing to recognize is that by law, we are legislating that heterosexuals have access to legal advantages that aren't available to homosexuals.
Explain to me WHY this divide should exist. For what reason are heterosexuals more deserving of these legal advantages than homosexuals?
fred4401
6:23 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Two thumbs up
K Blue
10:57 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Food for thought. Back in 1997, it was reported that there were 339 Maryland laws that provide for benefits, conditioned on marital status, which grant rights and responsibilities only to married couples consisting of a man and a woman. How would you feel if that law was changed to exclude you because of something you cannot control, like your age? Lets say the law is changed so a marriage is defined as between a man and a woman both under the age of 50. You turn the age of 50. You cannot help but turn 50. Suddenly, all of your legal rights as a committed couple in this State are nonexistent. Not your status in the eyes of your faith or your friends, not your commitment to one another, just your legal rights in the eyes o the law. You dont fit the mold. Too bad for you, because all of those laws (which cover areas such as taxation, business regulation, secured commercial transactions, spousal privilege and other procedural matters, education, estates and trusts, family law, decision-making regarding spousal health care, insurance, labor and employment, child care and child rearing, pensions, and the responsibilities attendant to spousal funeral arrangements, among others) dont apply to you. You are on your own while others around you who arent 50 yet enjoy all those privileges. All the under 50s are more deserving than you. I cannot imagine.
K Blue
10:58 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
I meant 2007.
Buzz Beeler
5:58 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Seems to me that I read somewhere that all men are created equal.
That may be true in la la land, however, the above makes no mention of women, and I can't hit the ball as far as Tiger Woods.
That is the real world. No matter much we want to make things conform the more nonconforming they become.
Heather Rankin
6:12 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Changing someones sexuality? I'm confused. I didn't say anything about changing someone sexuality. I'm for equality for everyone and support equal rights.
Buzz Beeler
6:15 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Fred I was interested in you comment of, "God does speak to us ( If you listen and not interject your self ) The Bible was written by many people over hundreds of years."
When I dropped dead, no one spoke to me. Hours later after getting zapped too many times to count, I do remember a nurse telling me they were going to pull the catheter out, and I distinctly remember hearing that.
I get that question a thousand times, did I see the light or anything else. I wish I could say yes, but the reality is I saw or remembered nothing.
Who knows, maybe he will post a comment and put an end to this debate because we are not all on the same page.
fred4401
6:20 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
I guess he was not ready for you yet. :-) I hope you are OK now. and I will pray for your continued good health
fred4401
6:17 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
At Tim, Now,I think what you just said was not very fair. So What you are telling me that I am a bigot just because I have friends that I don't always agree with. We have the respect enough for each other to be able to talk about anything and then still be friends. What you just said showed a little bigotry itself. If you want to debate fine but you can leave your hate out.
That is a big issue with the world today. If you don't agree , then you are labeled with hate or bigotry.
Buzz Beeler
6:28 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
Fred, that was very kind of you to say that and I thank you.
Buzz Beeler
11:43 pm on Monday, February 14, 2011
K Blue, 1997, heck I can't remember 2007 so for me your mistake went right over my head, or through it.
sid
12:06 am on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
Next will be funding for sex change operations. And Gay education is public schools.
Neversure
8:11 am on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
K Blue: Thank you very much for putting some real substance in front of us in the form of concrete examples instead of the somewhat nebulous idea of equal rights in marriage.
One thing that NO ONE who is against the right of gay marriage can ever tell me is this: If my next-door neighbors are married homosexuals, how can that ever downgrade the power, validity or well-being on my marriage, my family.
It can't.
Those who quote those obscure passages from Leviticus are on the same level as the rabid Jihadists who quote the Koran as a reason for killing "infidels".
Blaise Pascal, the 17th century scientist and philosopher said: "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
fred4401
8:39 am on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
Hey neversure , Your hate is showing, and you forgot Romans , that was written By Paul , a desiple of Jesus. the Son of god.
To compare Me and others that believe in the word of god to People that murder others is wrong. We do not kill . Many religons have gotten away from teaching the bible and only go with what they want and what suits them and their veiws. This is what happened at the reformation , I think some of the bible may still be missing. Read " a case for Christ" by Lee stroble and you will understand what I am talking about . And who did this ? The Catholic church. And now othewr religons are letting other parts of the bible be ignored , I think to get their congregations and Populations up.
fred4401
4:44 pm on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
OK Hold on. You don't want me quoting the Bible passages But you can quote some Philospher That I never heard of.
Neversure
5:52 pm on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
Fred,
I did not direct my post to anyone, except to thank K Blue.
Just because you haven't heard of somebody doesn't mean they don't exist. You can reference anything you want, so can anybody. That's what free speech is all about.
By the way, I hope your father is feeling better. Illness of a loved one can be so very stressful. Take care.
fred4401
8:42 am on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
I will be back to continue later . My Father is in the Hospital and not doing to well today. I am going to pray with him . and i will pray for all of you too. I DO believe in love and not hate unlike what I ands others were just accused of.
CKnick
8:52 am on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
People will certainly have differing opinions on this matter based on how they were raised and what and who they were exposed too. There will always be people on different sides, but the bottom line is separation of church and state. Religious organizations should not be imposing their beliefs, using the Bible as a reference , at the State or Federal levels, especially since they are tax exempt.
Buzz Beeler
10:15 am on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
Fred, hope the best for you and your father.
fred4401
1:23 pm on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
Thank you Very much. May God Bless you
Buzz Beeler
9:53 pm on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
Neversure, that was nice of you to show concern for Fred and his father.
Some of the comments are slow in coming up.
fred4401
10:04 pm on Tuesday, February 15, 2011
Thanks for the comment Neversure. It's nice to know that even if you dp not agree with the veiws of someone else , and maybe sometimes even heated . you all will still have compassion for your fellow man. God bless you all ,
Terri Czarski
12:50 pm on Friday, February 18, 2011
Thank you Senator Brochin for standing up for the Constitution and voting in favor of ensuring that everyone is treated equally under the law. I only wish that my own Senator and Delegates would have a more open mind on this subject. Unfortunately, I live in the 7th District....
Elihu Eli El
7:36 am on Saturday, March 5, 2011
Dear Maryland Delegates,
In case of divorce of same-sex with a child (ren) involved, both parents should have equal-parenting time. No parent should be deprived of his or her parental rights. That's simple common-sense. No child should be deprived of access to either parent. These are Fundamental and Constitutional Rights. Hopefully, civility and common-sense prevails in this matter, because I speculate that it would be at least 20 years before we amend or update the marriage law.
http://www.friendsofeli.com/live/video_popup.php/matrimony.doc?id=20&download=1&bipass=1&start_dl=1
Also, it sounds like street moves were pulled today. I urge that you vote with vigilance and remain street-wise.
Analogy:
I know that you hate my classical music, but I know that you love candy. I will take your candy and tell you that if you listen to my classical music over the 5 hour trip then I will... give you candy. I don't care if you have the candy or not, I simply ran the street move on you to get what I wanted in the first place.
That's how side-deals work. If you ain't street smart, you would think that I was being nice for simply returning what was justifiably yours in the first place. That's how folks get played "street game" "political game"...ain't much different.
I'm from country Arkansas. If folks can't even recognize "street game", they don't need to be in Annapolis. Folks Got Played!!!