So tell us, Karl, how would you fix this problem? No existing or proposed Voter ID law could catch inter-state multivoting. More Big Federal Government? I thought y'all were against that.

"[T]he dems are set against any reform"? Where do you get that from? What's your source?

Most every 'dem' I know would like to have significant voting reform that does the following things:
1) enables more of the population to vote. (national voting day off, early voting, etc)
2) provides significantly more accountability and traceability to the voting process. (full independent review of voting machine, voting receipts, sampling statistics, etc)
3) stricter punishments for voter fraud, and the tampering of the voting process (like the robocall fiasco with Ehrlich)
4) Voter ID - on board with it AS LONG AS significant barriers are not put in place to get it. Nor should there be any fee for an ID that is required for an election.

Frankly, until there is a national vote tracking there is no way that this type of fraud would be detected! It's ridiculous, but true.

As for me, I'm glad this was found out and Rosen is out of the race because of it. I don't think that there are any crimes that she can be charged with though, as much as that would be nice to have. And if the deadlines have passed, and there is no democratic candidate that can run according to the rules, then so be it.

Get real, Karl. I'm the chief Democratic election judge in my precinct, and I'm appalled at Ms. Rosen's actions. Did it escape your notice that the Maryland State Democratic Party asked her to resign? That the Democratic governor of our state publicly stated, "...we will not tolerate any violation of election laws"?

Democrats don't distribute misleading campaign literature telling voters that elected officials of another party endorsed their candidate, as happened in 2006 in the Steele-Cardin race for Senate. Nor do they make phone calls to people on election day telling them not to vote, as happened in 2010.

The mindset of democrats is such that today they rail against any sort of criteria - whether photo ID, or the elimination of motor voter; there seems to be nothing that might help protect the vote that they'll agree to. I don't care if you're the king of siam - it in no way changes the fact that from the current president, Holder, and on down the line dems all hit the groupspeak talking points - sqwalk; voter intimidation, sqwauk, disenfrancisement, sqwauk, suppression. We know exactly what the real message is...don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. The muddier the rules the easier it is to scam the system - that's what dems want to hold onto; an ability if needed to commit fraud.

I'm with you...I always ask if they'd like to see it as a point of principle. Certainly this sort of fraud (interstate) wouldn't be caught with an id - there are other ways we might stop this; but the other forms of fraud (intrastate) that we know are out there could certainly be curtailed with a simple photo id. Certainly this lady needs to be made an example and needs to do jail time and community service work - cleaning trash by the road in an orange suit seems about right to me. Voter fraud is a slap in the face to honest citizens as it undermined someone else's honestly cast vote. She's as low as they come.

.....because it is Unconstitutional .

Completely agree, voter ID should be mandatory.

kati, many democrat politicians would be fired very quickly without voter fraud.. starting with omalley, viva la babs, cardin, guttierez, ivey, munson *now gone*, ramirez, sarbanes etc..

Ms. Van Poppell says: [about showing ID] "I have to, to purchase drinks in a bar, and to fly, and even to check into a hotel. Why oh why not to vote." Because hotels and bars are private businesses. I must say, however, that I have stayed in several hotels recently and none asked me for anything other than a credit card. I have not had to show ID in a bar or liquor store for many years. And we must show ID to board a plane because apparently we have decided that will keep us safe.

Jack: please, let's be completely fair here.

There are just as many 'republicans' working to disenfranchise the lower class vote as there are 'democrats' attempting to circumvent voter ID laws.
Let's not make believe this is a one-side coin here.

Have any of you ever heard of ALEC? It is a right-leaning organization that, among other things, produces templates of legislation that lawmakers can use to get their laws through. The righties do plenty of research on who votes how, and they are pushing through laws to tip the elections to their side, and ALEC creates the model legislation that helps them get what they want. They got caught on the wong side of the PR war in the Trayvon Martin case when it was discovered that Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law came from model legislation produced by ALEC, and then they dropped out of the business of providing that type of legislation.

I mention in a post below how my mom, who is neither poor or a minority would fall through the cracks because she has decided to stop driving. She doesn't drink, her doctors do not want to see her license, and her pharmacy knows who she is - so she cannot vote?

The push on voter ID is a coordinated effort by conservatives.

Let me say again - VOTER ID LAWS ARE NOT A BAD IDEA - just implement them fairly.

Honeygo Hal, Voter ID laws are not "not a bad idea," they are a good idea. So what if your mother doesn't drive--every state issues a photo ID which is the same as a driver's license.

I always show my voters registration card

FormerHCPSEmployee - The point I have been making throughout this discussion is abot the implementation of the law - most of those lawmakers pushing this want it in effect immediately. There needs to be an adequate time for folks to find out about the law and get the ID - not be turned away from the polling place because they don't haunt the Patch like us junkies.

Terminator - some of the new laws say that's not enough, and suggest that someone can falsely show a voter registration card. That's why they want photo ID.

My grandmother who is 78 does not drive and has not traveled out of the country in 20 years. She has no license or passport. The republicans do not want her to vote, which is fine with me, she is a die hard republican! It goes both ways.

OBAMA 2012!!!

She doesn't drive, has never left the country...I assume she was born and provided a birth certificate. If she's unable to gather her birth certificate and get down to the DMV to get the state issued license (it looks and is just as valid as a driver's license), maybe you could help with that? Sure seems to me all this caterwalling over the mountain older people have to cross in order to vote might be made easier with a little help from the folks who really ought to step up. You folks seem to prefer undermining the integrity of an election to driving your elderly mom or aunt across town.

So Karl, let's keep in mind that there is no such law yet in MD. What you suggest is not terribly burdensome, and I would certainly do that for my Mom if it came to that. But, I'll say again - for perhaps the 5th time - what if that call were to come on Election Day when Grandmom says "They won't let me vote!" Put down your "I'm talking to a slimy liberal" shield for a minute and consider what I have been trying to say all along. That's all I'm saying (Slimy conservative shield back up)

You fill out what's called a provisional ballot - they have those at the polling places when improper or missing records create voting issues. It's available now; already regardless of voter id laws. Surely you have some other stupid excuse; now that that dog won't hunt either.

Karl, no stupid excuse - that is exclusively your territory.

Why can't a voter registration card serve as a viable ID? For quite some time now, I've almost always presented my driver's license to the election judges. Some are smart enough to just take the information on it to match me up. Another time recently, the judge insisted on asking me questions of which the answers were already on my friggin' license! How stupid can these people get?!?!?!

I say either present a valid photo ID or your voter registration card! Moreover, the voter ID should contain all necessary voter information as well as be able to fit into one's wallet without having to fold it. I mean why the hell does the Board of Elections print those damned cards if people aren't going to carry them?!

You are on ignore. Anybody that turns this episode into just another predictable rant isn't worth the effort.

Did you read those laws Hal or do you just believe the agitators? Many of these laws you say were "implemented by the GOP" were actually voted for on a bipartisan basis. By the way, is it not unjust for my vote to be diluted by dead voters and illegal aliens, or corrupt liberal candidates?

Bill Howard - The current voter ID laws are being pushed almost exclusively by GOP-run legislatures. But they are targeted to take effect immediately (before the 2012 election) with little or no effort to provide time to get everyone notified and registered.

I say again - I am for the concept - with adequate time to get folks registered (and of course with no cost to the voter.)

The issue of a nationwide registry to prevent inter-state corruption? Not a bad idea, but Repubs typically decry such a thing as "Big Brother" and "Big Government" - not to mention how to pay for it.

Karl - you have always been on "entertain" to me.

HOw are the GOP legislatures implimenting it? How do they know who the folks are without id? All folks have an id except many illegal aliens and they use other peoples or make their own.. We need photo ids for everything.. Doctors, meds, drive etc. extremely easier to obtain.. Md is now #2 in food stamp fraud because mostly due to illegal aliens abusing the systems by getting many food stamps using different ids. A good legit photo id would stop it all..please explain suppression and how you think the GOp is the cause.. I can produce the names of our md elected officials and how they vote. You can see for yourself the bill proposals regarding photo id by GOP and its not about suppression.. I probably can do all across the country but have to figure out their state websites..

You mean like the 30 days prior to the election deadline for registration in most jurisdictions? We still have almost a month before that deadline, and the voter ID laws were passed long before that. Any one who needs 1 election cycle--2 YEARS minimum, or did you mean 4 years--to get a photo ID has far larger problems. Heck, the Motor-Voter legislation makes it easy to register and get an ID in one trip. Voting is a right, and like all rights it comes with responsibilities. Voting should be 100% accessible, but not necessarily convenient. I don't trust the votes of a populace who barely had to get off the couch to vote, but I'll stand by the decision of an electorate who actually had to do something to vote. This movement to make voting more convenient is getting ridiculous--in some areas people are voting early before September. Why is it necessary to provide early balloting in *SEPTEMBER*? Much can happen between now and election day? This isn't necessarily even for absentee balloting. Given the hours of most polling places and the laws mandating the ability to allow someone to vote, early voting should be the exception, not the rule.

And why "no cost to the voter?" According to our current government, they can force me to purchase health coverage and call it a tax for no better reason than I happen to be alive. I'll take a once-every-4-year $15 "tax" (8 years for people 65 and older in MD) to buy a state ID versus the fees I'll face if I don't carry health coverage.

FmrHCPSEmp - This would be a new requirement in order to vote. Folks have never before been required to present such an ID when they vote. Pass the law, voter ID is not unreasonable - but it can't just change "overnight" when folks have never needed it before. I'll refer back to my Mom's situation - she has a driver's license, but no longer drives. She might be tempted to let it lapse unless she knew (she does) she might need it to vote. Those could be valid votes that are turned away.

As for the cost - it is unconstitutional to charge a poll tax - period. There is, in fact, a law known as The Voting Rights Act that specifically addresses the issue. Just can't do it.

Honeygo, then the answer is to eat the production costs of providing a state ID. I'll ride with that. But let's not mischaracterize the timing of these laws. Some states already had laws--the newer ones have already been passed and had to go through a court challenge. Several months prior to an election is plenty of time go get an ID--and not a student ID. Those are too easy to obtain.

FmrHCPSEmp - What I have seen from other states makes me wary, but I'm mostly interested in MD. There definitely are ways to handle obtining a free ID, and they will work. It is too late for this election cycle. Some other states have had their laws overturned by the courts for various reasons - some for timing, some have been ruled voter suppression.

So your suggesting that it helps to be a lush if you want to vote? Interesting concept...

I have never said that I am against it. But their are old and poor folks that have given up or never had a license, as well as other potential folks who need to get up to speed. Enact it already. Keep the voting rolls up to date and phase it in. The occurence of voter fraud is not high enough that we need to enact it immediately - phase it in.

They want to "phase it in" to give Obama the edge for this election.

How would voter ID have caught this? Since her family lived in Florida as did she for many years, she could have easily had valid ID for both States. The Bush Administration was intent on proving the voter fraud was rampant, making it a top priority of their States Attorneys. The result? According to the Brennan Center for Justice (http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_the_truth_about_voter_fraud/) voter fraud happens about as often as being struck by lightning, which is pretty rare. I don't show ID when I vote. There are only about 400 people who vote in my precinct and everyone pretty much knows everyone else and we see each other every election. The problem I have had is voter intimidation by GOP poll watchers at precincts with high numbers of minority voters. In 2008 I had to have the lawyers come in and have the GOP poll watcher removed. Voting is a fundamental right. It is not like buying beer or flying on an airplane. My father was born at home in 1930 and his birth certificate is in pencil. There are any number of individuals who do not have what I am sure you would consider "legitimate" ID. Even the GOP lawyers in Pennsylvania stipulated to the fact that there had been zero cases of someone trying to vote under another voter's name that had occurred. Most alleged fraud is innocent. A family send in a deceased relative's absentee ballot, an individual's address changed and they didn't update it, etc. Voter ID is a red herring.

I feel sorry for you. This has been a great four years for me. I bought a second home. So besides my NJ beach house, I now have one here (BRAC). I paid cash for my $50k car, got a $15k bonus this year. With my raise I am over $150k, my 401k more than doubled this year alone. I just turned 40. Life is good. Life is what you make of it. You can complain or do something. I chose to do something.

That's super you're doing so well Tillie. So how's about you getting off that fancy couch in your first or second home, getting in your fancy car and driving your 78 year old grandmother down to the DMV to get her MD issued ID? I'm sure after all these years with no form if identification she'll be happy to finally be official. Should take you no more than an hour or so...after all you wouldn't be here without her. Wouldn't that be easier and wiser than forcing everyone to abandon the idea of free and fair elections just so you won't be put out the least little bit?

Sorry Karl, there is no way I will help her vote for Lyin' Ryan. She watches too much fox news to be informed of what is really going on out there. Its better for her not to vote.

That's makes you a pretty low form of life.

100% false! Spend some time actually doing some research instead of repeating foxnews.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/federal-deficit-barack-obama-spending-stimulus-budget-historic-trends.php

Tillie, You know, as soon as the right-wingnuts hear anything that adds fuel to the fire of how democrats are ruining the country they run it up the flagpole - whether it is true or not.

There was a story this summer about where Obama was spending July 4th, and it spread like wildfire. When folks drilled down on it they found out it was a reference to campaigning for Obama in France, not that Obama was going to BE in France. It went from one person misunderstanding it all the way to Karl Rove repeating it as if it were factual. These folks rarely let the facts stand in their way...

My mother is in her upper 80's and has stopped driving. She will probably not renew her driver's license the next time it is up for renewal. So she is out?

Any cost in order to be provided with a voter ID is considered to be a poll tax, and is unconstitutional.

Check this out as well:

http://colorlines.com/archives/2012/08/true_the_votes_large_and_growing_far-right_network.html

No, it's clear that the GOP wants to have the best chance of winning big in this election so they have a streak going. If it happens, it is much less likely that any fair reforms would happen for several years.

If the laws they want go through, it would be a one-time windfall for them until all the folks caught unaware get registered to vote in the next election.

amdactivist - you should wake up and smell the steamroller - before it runs over you.

Oh, Gee - and Watergate was just harmless prank?

Yet again you try to put words in my mouth - I AM NOT AGAINST VOTER ID.

But please explain to us how you know that if it is put in place, there won't be folks who are otherwise entitled to vote who get sent away the first time for the lack of the correct ID. In some of the states with the new voter ID laws, the ID requirement is very strict, where student ID is not good enough. There is a trend among young folks to NOT get a driver's license as soon as they are eligible because they choose not to drive. In NYC, it is possible to get everywhere you need to go by public transportation - not my chosen way, but some do it.

So do it already - satisfy your conviction that voter fraud is poisoning the democracy and must be stopped. Just don't make a change to the most basic democratic principle without making sure you are not causing some harm in the way you implement it - isn't the integrity of our democracy worth at least that much caution?

amdactivist and others - it should be pretty apparent that these useless tools will excuse nearly anything. If you hold any value in constructive activities I'd not even respond. After all, if this doesn't put an exclamation point on the need to reform our election procedures not sure what does?

Terminator, let me repeat part of the comment I left to one of Karl's posts: " I'm the chief Democratic election judge in my precinct, and I'm appalled at Ms. Rosen's actions. Did it escape your notice that the Maryland State Democratic Party asked her to resign? That the Democratic governor of our state publicly stated, '...we will not tolerate any violation of election laws'?"

Do I think this Rosen fraud was discovered by them or just pointed out to them. I'm thinking the later...and given it was already on somebody's radar they were left with very little choice.

Rosen should go, and good riddance - Okay?

But the overwhelming majority of the discussion here has been about voter ID - which, as I mentioned in the second post of this thread, will not solve the problem of inter-state multivoting. So who's changing the subject? You people?

Who actually started "True the Vote"? Do you even have any idea?

http://www.salon.com/2012/08/25/undercover_at_true_the_vote_salpart/

That's fine. Keep showing the world your ignorance.

Dan just the fact alone that this lady easily gamed the system tell any thinking person that whatever the stats you use are false as currently there's little way to monitor interstate voting. Because there are very few instances of certain crimes doesn't mean we mothball the law against it. Of all the talking points the dems use this one has to be the most ignorant and dumb.

First off, I don't believe she "gamed" the system. That would presume that she intentionally set out to be fraudulent to have her vote count in both places. What I do believe is that she is a fool. And I am being kind in that judgement.

You want to create a voter ID law that is not tantamount to a poll tax, knock yourself out. But the minute you require someone to get a driver's license or have to travel to a local agency when they don't have transportation and are too poor for a taxi, you are creating a second class citizen and you are creating roadblocks to the basic premise of what this country is supposed to be all about.

She voted by accident in two states and you think she was just confused? You think twice; both in 2006 and 2008 this woman somehow mistakenly voted in two states - takes a bit of planning to accomplish that; this wouldn't be like forgetting your wallet or something. Incredulous to believe that's even possible.

"They're gonna put you back in chains", "They're going to end Medicare as you know it", "They're going to increase your prescription costs", "They're going to reduce your social security benefits", "Veterans will be the losers if Romney wins." How many more groups are you going to try and scare? This has been a "left" tactic for a long time. Instead of telling us what Obama has/has not accomplished, you prey on the weak and frightened. You should be ashamed.

This is why I will vote for Obama:
Obama saved the auto industry
Obama got Bin Laden
Obama withdrawing troops form the middle east
Obama repealed Don't ask don't tell
Obama overhauled the healthcare system, to get the losers who don't want insurance (so they use emergency rooms as their primary care doctors) and stick tax payers with their bills. Insurance companies can not charge more than 20% of primiums on CEO bonuses and admin costs. No pre-existing condition kick out clause. Children can stay on parents plans until 26. My parents are small business owners in MA. Romneycare saved them 10's of thousands in premiums. Obamacare was based on Mitt's healthcare plan. If its good enough for MA, then its good enough for everyone!

This is why I will not vote for Romney:
Romney/Ryan want to go to WAR with IRAN. <- haven't we learned a hard lesson from Bush already? This alone is 100% why no one should vote for Romeny!

People Person, everyone wants something for nothing. The mantra is "as long as I get mine, the hell with everyone else and I don't care who pays for it." Please wake up. There are no free lunches! We are trillions not billions in debt as a country. Look at your own household. If your family wanted to eat out every nite and you didn't have the money, would you say, "but they deserve it." Both my son and husband are veterans. They fought in wars and put their lives on the line for freedom. There comes a time in 2012 when we can't afford to do business as usual. Everyone has to take a hit. The poor, middle class, everyone! I don't want my grandkids saddled with a debt that my generation created. Please voters wake up before we become like Greece and Spain .

Good lord Terminator, do you seriously think that scare tactics are limited to only one side of this political debate? If you do, you are seriously blinded by your own desire for one candidate over the other.

HA HA HA HA: "it's difficult to read and even more so to explain, so the Democrats have left it alone." That about sums it up. Everything is style and not substance with the current President.

And Tillie, Obama didn't save the auto industry--Ford did just fine on their own. He "saved" GM by placing them into federally-managed bankruptcy without calling it bankruptcy. Go ask all the dealerships he closed down practically overnight how well he save their industry. The only real difference between Obama's "saving" GM and the bankruptcy protection widely supported is that it would have been the creditors and investors--those people who made it possible for GM to have capitol to lose in the first place--who recovered some of their assets instead of the UAW. Bankruptcy is not necessarily a bad thing. United Airlines used it after 9/11 and saved the company.
Obama didn't get Bin Laden. The military got Bin Laden. They created the plans, they got the intelligence on the ground, they flew into Pakistan and engaged in a firefight in a hostile compound. All Obama did was approve the mission to proceed--a move that only a weak President would've not done. (And let's remember that Biden admitted that he might not have done so. Of course he also said Hillary would've been a better VP choice.
If you actually think that giving people health insurance will prevent them from using the ER as a Dr office, you're mistaken. It will only compound the problem.

And Tilly, exactly where have Romney/Ryan proposed we invade Iran? How exactly does their position differ from our current President who insists that all options are on the table?

Unless of course, you understand like the rest of the world that "all options are on the table" doesn't really include any military action beyond moving a flotilla to the Straits of Hormuz to prevent them from blockading the Strait.

In order to suggest that "all options are on the table," there has to be a credible threat of powerful, agile military action. You can't stand by as a region delves into chaos.

Re: The auto industry. If GM & Chrysler go bankrupt, Ford follows soon behind - parts suppliers and the other supporting industries could not live with Ford's business alone. Or do you think it is still the company of Henry Ford that makes every part and component themselves? Gone, years ago. GM and Chrysler closed those dealerships, not Obama - they took that opportunity to shrink the dealer network.

But you know it's funny that those bad things get attributed to Obama, but the Osama bin Laden raid - which was performed entirely by government employees is not credited to the Commander-in-Chief, who is over ALL government employees...

Honeygo,

That's not accurate at all. If GM *fails* and goes out of business then yes, parts manufacturers, etc will soon follow. However, "going bankrupt" or entering bankruptcy is not the same as failing and going out of business. United Airlines was in bankruptcy for 3 years, 51 days--2002 through early 2006. No one barked about "saving United" because the UAW wasn't involved. The Tribune corporation has been in bankruptcy protection for several years now. Both are still very much in business and moving forward. When people said "Let GM go bankrupt," that doesn't mean let them fail. It means let them enter court-protected bankruptcy, renegotiate and realign their debt to give them a chance to survive. That's the same thing Obama did when he "saved GM," except whereas the courts would've mandated that creditors would've been first line to receive what assets were available to be paid out (you know, all those parts manufacturers everyone keeps mentioning) rather than the unsustainable UAW contract. Both would likely have had the same result for GM--but bankruptcy would've paid more money into the hands of those parts suppliers and providers of capitol and the UAW contract would've been renegotiated--by the courts if necessary--to be more favorable to GM's long term future.

FmrHCPSEmp - Okay, if GM and Chrysler "fail" - all the other stuff I mentioned happens. Glad I gave you the chance to rail against the UAW.

I'll have to be a little more careful with my words - and be watching others for the same.

people person veterans absolutely love romney and ryan.. you post things with no links.. what about obama's defense cut? whats the difference? and i saw the link from msnbc.. msnbc, cnn, nbc and many others are owned by GE general electric. A stooge for obama and lied for him and now they have control of market and pay no taxes.. NONE!! no where in the link said anything about cutting va benefits. you bendover obama buds have to lie to get him reelected? obama said "lies win elections".. and you prove it..ryan said he wants to cut government which has grown 10 fold the past century. they get elected and then hire all their huge campaign supporters. the democrat senators haven't passed a budget in about 1100 days now.. they awol just like obama!! what a crock.. Shameful white house liberal scum..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbLO228n14o

They're gonna put YALL back in chains... one of your FACTS? You are a dolt.

The dolt is the person(s) that took that statement literally.

So Steve, when a sitting Vice President of the United States makes a statement such as this, we are all supposed to snikker and just say "what an idiot"? or say "just another Biden gaff" or...... what would you say?

You just chalk it up to flowery speech. Did anybody really believe the Wasilla Hillbilly could actually see Soviet jets from her porch?

Terminator - even with all of Biden's gaffes, I'd take him any day over Dan "The future will be better tomorrow" Quayle:
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Dan_Quayle/

Steve, I'm no big Palin fan, but since you're such a fan of facts, let's stick to 'em: Palin never said anything about Russia and her porch. That was Tina Fey.

Karl, can you let me know which law she's broken? I'd love to research it more fully, but no reports have mentioned specifically which law is broken.

Don't take the above as defending her - I'm not, and I'm glad she is no longer a candidate - but I'm not aware of a specific law she has broken and I'm trying to find out.

I don't have the information right in front of me...seems to me it's a 5 year maximum with potential $250,000 fine. Of course that's maximum. Seems to me there are opportunities for prosecution both through the state and federal governments. Just the fact that Gansler's office has already been contacted makes it pretty clear laws have been broken.

Gansler won't do a dang thing. he's fits right in with md politician liberals..unless of course it gets him political gain.

This isn't about Mitt Romney, it's about Wendy Rosen and voter fraud...nice attempt at diversion however.

So then this is about inter-state multivoting and not the unrelated voter ID issue, yes?

@Tilley:
You know you're arguing in circles, right? You can't complain that Romney's soft because he refused to attack targets in Pakistan and then allege that he's all set to invade Iran if elected.
I think Romney was right as long as you don't twist his words around. Is it worth moving Heaven and Earth to find one man that we thought was hiding in a network of caves? It's not. That doesn't mean it's not worth pursuing at all, just that there are limits to it. And we'd still be looking for him if the folks in Guantanamo didn't ascertain the information about the courier which eventually led us to the Pakistani compound. The final path to OBL went through Guantanamo, not the Afghan/Pakistan border area. A large manhunt there would've been wasted.

With regards to attacking targets in Pakistan: the increased drone attacks *have* had exactly the effect that Romney predicted in your 2007 quote. While I would argue that the US/Pakistan relationship needs to be reexamined wholesale in the first place, US strikes in Pakistan has greatly increased tensions and Pakistan even barricaded an important supply road as a result of one of them gone wrong. So, regarding your statement, "Romney’s own statements...make it...clear that he would not have pursued [OBL] or ordered the...operation that finally brought him to justice," Nothing in Romney's stance/statement indicates that he would not have used Guantanamo intelligence resources or pulled the trigger if OBL was found.

Wow....try again. Last time I checked, Pawlenty's not going to be on the ticket this November. People on his campaign can think one way and support a certain point of view--no one on a team will all be in lock step with regards to how they think we should proceed--and Pawlenty isn't on the campaign and advising Romney on Foreign Affairs Policy.

Nowhere in that article does it say that the actual candidates are rearin' to go to invade Iran as you'd have people believe. *An ADVISOR* has that opinion.

And next time, at least scour the web a bit more to find a credible new source. I wouldn't try quoting the Drudge Report as a primary source. Don't you try to do the equivalent.

If Amdactivist is a stereotypical Romney voter then Obama is a shoo in

amdactivist, where do you get the idea that Mr. Root ever was a friend of Mr. Obama's? As for none of his friends recalling Obama attending there, I don't find that improbable at all. Any college student will tend to find a social circle that mirrors his or her own interests. If they had different interests, they might never have exchanged names. Obama himself says that he began to buckle down to studies and didn't socialize much during his time there. It's likely that they had some classes in common, but unless they were tiny seminars, do you really think that they'd remember every other student in the room?

I went to a large high school with about 1200 people in my senior graduating class-- far smaller than the number of undergrads at Columbia, even dividing by 4 for an approximate number in the senior class at Columbia. During a trip overseas, I met a girl I'd graduated with-- and didn't recall ever meeting. Considering that I apparently had a few classes with the other girl (we compared teachers and schedules), spent the same hours at the school, etc., the likelihood is higher that I would have known her than that any two undergrads with different interests would have known each other at Columbia.

Furthermore, your link to Snopes directly contradicts your own claim. When I looked at that link, there were 3 stories listed. Take a good look at the third one: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/columbia.asp, which is the relevant link to your point.

That movie is a scam. It was filmed by a guy that sided with the WTC terrorists. He said 'America deserved what they got."
I wouldn't pay a dime to watch any movie he is involved in.

I did NOT vote for Mr. Obama in the 2008 primary, and in fact he was my last choice of the candidates that year. I voted for him in the general election and have not regretted my vote. Although there are aspects of his policies that I'm not happy with, I believe that he would have been a far more successful president if there hadn't been a "Whatever it is, I'm against it" type of attitude from other politicians.

I'm a believer in the idea of "the loyal opposition," which is the attitude that prevailed when I was growing up (I'm 60). Polarization started under the Nixon administration, under the leadership of the late Lee Atwater. (By the way, shortly before his death he publicly strongly regretted the dirty tricks, enemies' lists, and polarization that he'd encouraged.) It's not a new thing.

amdactivist, I saw both Beth Fouhy's fact check and Mr. D'Souza's rebuttal, plus I've read a fair number of comments on the film. When people start screaming that "it's time America woke up to the dangers of this commie socialist Nazi!", I have to consider the source. The people who've gone to see it and commented have never had any intention of going with an open, critical mind; they went with the determination to see something that reinforced their own beliefs.

As for interviewing Mr. Obama's extended family, he didn't meet ANY of them until he was fully adult-- well past the period where his opinions and basic personality traits would have been formed. I would be far more impressed if the movie had interviewed the half-sister who he DID grow up with.

I'll continue in the next message-- Patch tell me that this is too long.

Rmoney better start pandering to White Americans. He is losing their support big time.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/11/us-usa-election-poll-bible-belt-idUSBRE88A05H20120911

I saw not one anti-white comment in that video. Republicans have a National Black Republican Association. Both parties have sub-groups for Asians, Hispanics, Jews, environmentalists, pro-choice, pro-life, small business owners, veterans, farmers, women, etc.-- in short, any group you can imagine. There is a "Mormons for Obama" group.

Mr. Obama's comments simply said that black Americans have made remarkable gains in the past few decades, including the fact that he became president. I see nothing threatening in this fact. He certainly did NOT say "Vote for me because I'm black like you." If that's what you heard, listen again, because it's not there.

By the way, when I see anti-Romney comments, I make a point of asking for proof, fact checks, etc., and I do not tolerate rudeness, obscenities, or calling Romney supporters names. Just so you know, I apply my standards equally.

I was just about to say that, Hal. Ditto. Hot topics always have a tendency to get off track.

Nor am I suggesting that you are a racist. People can certainly hold different opinions without being racist. I AM concerned that you spout talking points without actually reading the articles they cite or listening to the clips.

You have not responded to any of my points-- you've just changed the topic each time.

Finally, I do not have the time, or frankly the interest, to deal with this any longer. You haven't posted a single thing where I was unable to find mistakes or inconsistencies, and you don't seem to be interested in trying to have an exchange of views. I have a speech to write for Saturday that I've barely started, plus a booklet to write and another speech to give in 2 weeks. Unless you actually post something that you've listened to or read CAREFULLY, I'm not interested in responding.

ARRRRGH. Seriously, I've lost my temper. Do you even LISTEN to the links you post, or just take the word of people who hate Obama as to what they say??? The quote I posted above is WORD FOR WORD from this interview. Let me repeat it: Ayers had "...engaged in some despicable acts 40 years ago when I was eight years old. BY THE TIME I MET HIM, 10 or 15 years ago, he was a college professor of education at the University of Illinois. … And the notion that somehow he has been involved in my campaign, that he is an adviser of mine, that … I’ve ‘palled around with a terrorist’, all these statements are made simply to try to score cheap political points." The Annenberg Foundation, incidentally, has MANY different agencies. Walter Annenberg was very active in Republican politics, incidentally. He was a friend of Nixon and Reagan.

Steve is correct, Obama is in no sense of the word a socialist. Look up the definition of the word.

I have no intention of seeing a hatchet job, just as I had no interest in seeing hatchet jobs that on Bush or any other Republican. Therefore, I will NOT give my money to the people who made "2016."

Oh, I believe you're a registered Democrat. I'd also believe you voted for Obama in the 2008 primary. However, you never stated that you voted for him in the GENERAL election, which leads me to believe that you're a registered Democrat much like the friend I mentioned, who votes for the person he thinks would be the weakest candidate.

It not a documentary. It was scripted and poorly at that. It's all fabrications and lies.

josie.. its been all over the news. Even the liberal nbc hosted a couple sec segment. its a great story with magnificent reviews by all. No actors but real people.. forward to all your friends.. I also think it was on hannity and o'reilly.. not sure though..

Steve, you haven't commented on Biden's hair plugs and Botox?

I have a difficult time with this "fair share" horse puckey. What, exactly is a fair share? All these folks are spouting about fair share, but no one wants to define it. To me, a fair share means everyone pays the same as a percentage of their income. Call that a flat tax if you'd like, but that's fair share. I have a hard time with the "fair share" advocates because what they actually advocate is the rich paying MORE than their fair share because they make more.It's not about your "share," it's about your bottom line. These are the same people who would cap corporate profits if they could. Obama has said, "At some point you've made enough money." Really? I think we all have a right to know where you consider that point to be

Ella, a write-in campaign is possible, but it would be difficult to win - especially in this district. I have asked Patch to post info on how to cast a write-in vote, and I did find a link from MD Elections site that helps. As the election draws near, I'm sure there will be threads about voting, and that info should appear. In the meantime, the bickering will continue - and I will likely be part of it.

Ella - Did you see what you just wrote? "Why do we have to be so hateful toward each other. Wendy Rosen is an AWFUL person..." You are hypocrisy at its finest. You could have said she is not qualified.