Steve: Judicial Watch announced a day later it was appealing the decision. It's my understanding the appeal remains active.

You answered your own question.

College education is a finite merit based resource. The slots that go to illegals are slots that will not go to kids that were born here or came here legally. The funding for
this is also an issue. Where will it come from.If you came here from Mexico illegally
and you got a free k-12 education on the taxpayers dime. Take your newly minted
high school diploma and enroll in a Mexican University. Help make your home country a better place

According to Steve those who fight against tax money to illegals are racist. Then those fighting FOR are racists by the exact same theory. Even though that theory is racist as well which makes Steve........

Most of the anti-Dream Act folks must think that these immigrants just sit around all day on the government dole. These folks want to work and they work hard. They pay taxes too. They are taxpayers.

JW won their suit like this on in New Jersey.

From the Desk of Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton:

Judicial Watch Forces New Jersey School to Abandon Discounted Tuition for Illegal Aliens

In a dramatic and clear-cut victory for the rule of law, Judicial Watch forced the County College of Morris (CCM) in New Jersey to reverse an unlawful policy which allowed illegal aliens discounted tuition at the school! As expected, the decision came down last Thursday. The headline of a New Jersey Daily Record article the following day tells the whole story: “Lawsuit Worries Prompted Reversal on College Tuition for Illegal Immigrants.”

As reported by the Daily Record:

One County College of Morris trustee mentioned the prospect of being sued and paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills. Others said legal considerations played a part in their deliberations over tuition rates for illegal immigrants.

In the weeks leading up to their vote…CCM’s trustees had received letters from freeholders and a national conservative group called Judicial Watch saying they were violating federal laws. Concerns about those laws, and the possibility of lawsuits, seemed to spur a 9-2 vote to charge higher, out-of-state rates to undocumented students even if they live in the county.

So Paul Amirault, anyone here who pays taxes is entitled to all the benefits a legal citizen is entitled to? Why then do we spend billions at the borders demanding ID form all who enter? If they make it past the border is there a certain distance form that border that they get a pass and are no longer required to provide the same documents they would have had to provide if they crossed legally?

LOL There was no lawsuit from JudicialWatch in New Jersey.

Wow Steve, I posted the story and you saying it never happened? Wow!

I guess JW didn't do the same to Montgomery College?

Oh I get it now, Steve is playing his liberal word games. THREAT of suit led to JW win in NJ.
Is that better Steve? Or is there another word you will pick to play with?

JD1, what is worse, a kid paying in-state tuition to get educated and become productive or a presidential candidate hiding money in Swiss bank accounts and holding a $100 million IRA in the Cayman Islands to avoid income taxes, "legally". Who is really screwing you? Great tax system we have. It is so easy to hate the brown man/woman while the one wearing magic underwear steals from us.

I'll ignore the attempt to muddy the issue with your partisan political bs. I don't hate the brown man/woman. This is the problem with libs - you have to pollute each issue with rhetoric. Come into the country legally. Pay taxes. Become a state resident. Play by the rules. No racism, no golden panties, just common sense. Don't take my kid's spot when you aren't playing by the rules. If you want to go, get a loan and pay out of state tuition. If you want to be productive, get a job, work hard, save your money, gain legal citizenship. Like I said to Steve - if you want to pay for an illegal to go to school, start up your own private foundation so like minded folks can donate their money. Stop taking my money and assume you can throw it around as you wish to serve your own social justice agenda. I respect your position, you need to respect my wallet.

Paul, simple answer. What Romney is doing is legal. Whether or not you think it should be is your opinion. The ILLEGAL alien going to school with in state tuition is an ILLEGAL alien.
I have lived in Maryland my whole life in Baltimore County. If my kids want to go to Harford Community College, I must pay a premium because they don't live in Harford County. Why are my kids being denied that education?

Other Tim - if that "ILLEGAL" kid, please stop shouting, also lived in Baltimore County went to Harford County he/she would also have to pay out-of-county rates. Rates are "discounted" if you pay taxes to the jurisdiction where you live. If the "ILLEGAL", gosh I hate all caps, pays taxes to our state he should be able to pay in-state rates.

The problem is the 11 million illegals cannot be just shipped home. That is 3% of the people in this country and thus at least 3% of the work force. Most of these folks work for a living.

PS Other Tim, you presume what Romney did was legal. We don't know because we can't see.

Oh, I see. Presume it was illegal because you don't like him.

Other Tim - as a former practicing CPA, off shore tax shelters are highly complicated transactions. The accountants and lawyers that design them are paid to "avoid" not "evade" taxes which is a very thin line and is litigated routinely by the IRS. I will be the first to tell you, Romney believes what his advisers told him to do was legal, I would too. But his instructions were to them, reduce my taxes. He either did not think about the cosmetics or did not care.

The issue devolves into the famous parsing of words by Clinton. That said, any presidential candidate who crawls into the den of Swiss bank accounts and Cayman Island IRA accounts is being foolish, legal or not.

Do I like Romney, probably not, I would get tired looking at the 2 knobs on the Etch-a-Sketch screen <[;-)). Smile OT. Forgetting politics because I really don't know what is his current position on anything (that is not a political comment), I probably wouldn't want to have a beer with him.

If your children are going to CCBC, then you get in-state tuition at UMBC. They won't be going there free, it'd be the same tuition you'd pay.

Shell9....I think it has something to do with building a voter base...when illegal folks will not be required to provide i.d. and will be presumed to provide a vote "pay back" to the political party that is working so hard to set everything in place at the voting booth.. Of course, I could be wrong on that...but somehow I don't think so, honey child. Ahhh yes, the "R" word....obviously a number of well meaning folks are unaware that Spanish is not a race, Mexican is not a race, Hondoran is not a race, latino is not a race...on and on. Political correctness has gone a little overboard on the "R" word, but it definitely is used when all else fails against folks insisting on righting a wrong...especially the current political arena.. It is a simple fact illegal is illegal...so I suggest we cool it with the "R" garbaage!!! As for Mexico..well I would suggest we not play games with them..I hear their jails are very scary places to spend the rest of your life and they don't play!!!

Maybe, just maybe, McDonough just isn't afraid to buck the system when he feels he is right. Using your logic, we should all just go along with Obama because he is the most powerful man in the world. No sense picking a fight with him.
The Mayor would lose the debate with McDonough. That's why she won't debate. (Or maybe she won't debate him because he is white.)
Racism? Please.

Speaking of getting one's foot stuck in their mouth why didn't your respond to Bryan's comment. You got it wrong again, just like you getting your name wrong. At least McDonough knows his right name.

The mayor backed down from the challenge not McDonough. She's too busy getting her new cell phones at the taxpayers expense.

They don't give the same courtesies in Mexico. I have had many family and friends that have traveled that can attest to it. Tired of people calling other ppl racist just because they challenge or state an opinion contrary to theirs..

They do do apply the same courtesies in Mexico. Just look at how many AMericans and MExicans work in the Maquiladoras every day.

Agreed - I have worked personally with him but like many folks, I feel that Dr. h is on the wrong side of the issue. When we have a limited number of seats, why would you admit illegals and deny kids whose parents have played by the rules. This is exactly why individuals pour into this country each day placing greater strain on our resources. We have become the world's soup kitchen. Walk downtown and look at the people sleeping in the street. Why are we using resources to assist those who come into the country illegally when we aren't taking care of our own veterans and mentally ill. Please state your logical argument without personal attacks. Maybe I can be convinced to change my view if someone would state facts instead of slinging mud at McDonough or any conservative perspective.

JD1 - you missed my point entirely - there is no denying of anyone anything except the "illegal kid" who was brought here. You equate "illegal" with "kid". Letting a kid who lives here, whose parents pay taxes here, and let them pay, yes pay, in-state tuition is not a strain on us at all. They have to go to a community college which is not turning away students. There are empty chairs in those classrooms. I'd rather have a kid get educated then roam the streets. The final solution is to ship "them" back where they came, get realistic, that isn't going to happen. What's funny about that is the Republican Party realizes that shipping them back doesn't work either.

Regarding partisan bs, you always through in a "lib", etc. in your comments. What in my "partisan BS" is not true? The Swiss bank accounts, $100 million IRA, or the "magic underwear"?

Same game can be played, you "cons" always go after welfare queens, gays, and illegals taking your money. You'll get a lot more respect for your opinions if you were consistent by going after the big dollar tax cheats as well. But "cons" don't chase them, why is that? Oh, that's right, Romney played by the rules to avoid taxes. It smells.

Dr. Hrabowski's position is inhumane to all the students born in this state that will not
get to go to college at UMBC or Towson,etc.. because those slots went to illegal aliens.
Dr. Hrabowski's position is very unfair in that regard.

Agree. It's not like being an undocumented immigrant is pushing people through the door of UMBC. Students compete with documented, undocumented, and natural born citizens for grades in high schools, SATs, class rank, etc. These students would still be accepted to UMBC if their achievements earned them acceptance, they will just be charged more fairly.

Sharon: I'm a current UMBC student, so maybe I am biased in supporting Freeman, but point blank, an offer of admission into a university goes to the best candidate. The illegal immigrants have to apply just the same as legal residents. If a student isn't offered admission, their "slot" wasn't taken by an illegal immigrant, for they never had a slot in the first place. The slots for admission go to the best candidates. If that candidate happens to be an illegal immigrant, but has lived in Maryland their whole life, therefore has paid Maryland taxes, then they're just as much a "marylander" as any.

"Pat is nuts saying that illegals go to UMBC!!!! " Just how do you know that to be factual if UMBC does not it to be factual since they don't bother to ask?

UMBC accepts credit cards for tuition. They also have many "ESOL" classes, which supports their diversity initiatives. The English as a Foreign Language department is located in the center of the university and is bustling with foreign students conversing and doing their best to learn English. I love UMBC too, but let's not make it sound like something it's not. It is a top Honors University and certainly does not lack smart students who have worked hard to be accepted, but that does not mean it turns a blind eye to the importance of embracing the diversity which is a staple of the country we live in, and is stated as one of Hrabowski's favorite parts of UMBC.

We disagree on Romney.

MJB, not true. My presumption is that the influx of illegal immigrants has leveled due to the overall poor economy. I agree that we need to keep people from sneaking across the border in search of a better place to live because our resources are limited. You are wrong about the enforcement of the laws. The congressional authorization of funds to ICE limits deportations to around 400,000 per year. The Obama administration reached the annual maximum deportations unlike his predecessor.

An illegal immigrant pays taxes as follows: 1) if they rent, included in the rent is reimbursement for property taxes, 2) If they own property they pay property taxes, 3) if they work state, county and federal income taxes are withheld as well as FICA and Medicare, 4) if they buy gas they pay tax, 5) if they shop they pay sales tax, 6) if they buy alcohol they pay the 9% sales tax and in addition to all of the fees and other costs charged by the government. Simply, they pay.

The illegal is doing exactly what you would do if you lived in Mexico and saw that you and your family have no future. You gamble and take chances.

Only Mr. McDonough knows what his motives are.

cell phones

Steve Stop lying ,I mean really it gets ridiculous .An American can't even buy land in Mexico .There laws are totally stronger on illegal immigration than ours .Also why do you point out Mexico as being illegal immigrants many more of these immigrants are from Honduras ,Guatamala and other countries they pass through Mexico.Where they are tortured and held in jails when caught passing through by Mexicans .I don't agree with Pat on all things and I call him out .But let it be a democrat issue and you just agree and everyone is wrong .you others that bring up Romney money issues ,Obama stated on Jimmy Fallon he smoked pot and did blow in college.Blow is a felony,he admitted it why aren't you calling him out? Oh yeah he is a democrat .

Politician = Liar
Politician = Crook or nearly so
Party doesn't matter

I didn't make it Dem/Rep issue. I am just pointing out the facts of the matter. Nothing is going to happen. I have a large issue with people calling kids "ILLEGALS", gosh I hate all caps.

I also recognize the reality of the situation. We are not going to send 11 million people back, that's just the truth. So what are we going to do instead? That's the issue.

John, you are so right! Fishing and illegal immigraton problem is a big difference like a dime to a dollar!

our president does!

Its a sad issue, who were brought to this country illegally by their parents at a very young age, and were too young to have an opinion or action about it. They have grown up here? But parents are responsible for the children, social services will inform you on that, Using children as a right to break a law is inhumane - lacking reflecting, lack of pity or compassion being used against of the law of the citizens and law of the land. another way to look at it is exploitation of children for their justification to break the law and their cause. Look who supports it and uses it separation of church and state and its abuse of the law.

As least spell it correctly!

What's ugly is expecting taxpayers to cough up more money for stupid things such as
in-state tuition for ILLEGALS! If you feel that strongly, then write a check to fund it and leave taxpayers alone. It sounds great to take care of everyone in the world, especially when it doesn't cost you anything. But that's human nature.

John, please explain to me how it costs you more money?

Wow are you actually calling Obama out Steve? Good for you I agree when he said Tayvon could have been his son nothing brought out so much hate .Good for you Steve calling out calling out Obama for his ugly tactics .You did mean Obama right Steve your not picking and choosing people using illegal ,ugly tactics you couldn't be that shallow ?

This thread isn't about the President in case you haven't noticed.

It's better known as 5 watt bulb.

Most of them "dummies", as you call them, are not dumb at all. Your "dummies" get visas and then get high paying jobs in place of our "dummies" that don't get those jobs.

Paul can't you recognize when someone is being factious?

I presume you meant "facetious" as I catch most of those? However I see nothing in John's post suggesting same. He can call me wrong if he likes.

He pointed out you calling them "dummies" and I didn;t think you meant they were actually dummies but just dummies for doing the legal thing when they could do it the easy cheap way.
"not meant to be taken seriously or literally" So I do think the word applies to the comment.

Not John's post but Paul's. "Most of them "dummies", as you call them, are not dumb at all" so he DID make it sound like he thought you were serious.

Windriver, I admit you have me completely confused. I used the word "dummies" In repeating a part of John's post. I don't see where I initiated that comment?

John said, "What about the dummies that are waiting in line to come here the legal way?", that is what I responded about.

Nobody knew who he was until he complained about the mythical "mobs of black youths downtown"

People like McDonough crave any attention, even if it's negative attention

I called him out for his stance on BGE but unlike democrats republicans can do that .We disagree with someone we let them know and in public .Maybe if the democrats would do that instead of always listening to their "talking points" this state wouldn't be so messed up .Try it once one good thing about being a republican we can criticize our party and they don't expell you . Sort of like Depazzo calling out section 8 and what it would do to Dundalk in some areas ,man did they turn on him. I guess they were right to, looking back there was no large increase of section 8 moving into Dundalk or essex when they knocked down the projects was there?

How many people have appliances delivered, or contractors who only "one" speaks english? I have been told by business owners that the one that speaks english is legal while the one that cant speak english is illegal, I saw the same with contractors tree removal during the aftermath of the storm that left us without power Some business owners have to use the same tactics to survive. I know one that employed several; the group will get an apartment work and send money to there home country or move family to create the anchor . Its all about money and control!

Somehow I missed this.

1) this Act does not cost you a dime. Those are empty chairs at Community Colleges and these students paying in-state tuition save money, because if they can't afford out-of-state rates they don't go.
2) if they graduate, they can attend a four year college which also has plenty of empty chairs for juniors due to The 50% dropout rate. Again, getting money is good.
3) we end up with a college educated person which is a good thing.

JD1- I did what you asked now watch how many people use the word "illegal" in their reply.

That's the amazing thing. Most of those dopes who signed the petition had absolutely no idea what they were signing. They heard the word "Illegal" and their response was Pavlovian.

I signed the petition, and I resent your calling me a dope. In my opinion, anyone who does not understand "illegal" is really and truly either uneducated, stupid, or just plain afraid of the truth.

Ha ha, I am up to 2!

ILLEGAL is not name calling. It's just facts.

There is 3!

We had a system of migrant workers but Ronald Reagan crewed it all up. You can't put the Genie back in the bottle.

Enough with the racist argument - its bullsh*t and getting old. Throwing he race card is for idiots that don't know enough to develop a sound argument. I still haven't heard a single fact that justifies the Dream Act. There have been multiple stated against it. All I have heard is name calling and that these kids will end up on the streets if we don't give them discounted tuition.

JD1, let's start with a statement. You are not going to be able to send them back. Simply is not going to happen. If we can't agree on that, end of discussion, have a great day as everything else goes from that point.

Your "solution" is to take care of only 1 student??? How about the other 59?

You have not been paying attention. Send them back.

60 kids x $60,000 for a four year degree = $3,600,000. Start taking up a collection outside of all the catholic churches on Sundays and those of you who support this will have the cash you need without stealing from the rest of us. You can even get them to pay you back after they get those high paying jobs when they graduate.

They aren't going to college for free. They still have to pay the in state rate.

JD1 found the ROOT CAUSE! While the DIRECT CAUSE is throughout this thread

kevin, let me explain it a different way. my personal experience has been there are always chairs for qualified junior transfers at all in-state universities and colleges. It doesn't matter what you are, if you have not done well at community colleges, they don't want you, legal or not. An unqualified "legal" is still unqualified.

kevin - you must know by now that Paul's "personal experience" trumps any knowledge that you might have. Don't fight it or you'll be lumped in with the rest of us Romney loving conservative racists.

JD1 - I did not accuse you of that, as a starting point I am pointing out we either agree on that or not. If one says the only option is to send them back I am done.

PS JD1- you earlier challenged anyone to make a non-racist logical argument which I did - you failed to respond. I presume you missed it while you were asking me to have a bake sale. My conversation has been civil toward you and you went to the septic system, why?

E-Verify is a big costly mistake.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11146.pdf

Gosh OT, "if" is such a Big little word. Just not going to happen.

Paul, since you never make typos, I must assume you are addressing me here. Please explain. Also, what's with the upper case B.

My apologies OT, the comment was directed at RMI as indicated by the indent.

"E-Verify is a huge disaster. It only works about 50% of the time and it is costly for a small contractor to implement."

Hmmmm.
These statistics are based on E-Verify cases in Fiscal Year 2011. Percentage may not appear to sum based on rounding.
Most employees are automatically confirmed as work authorized.

98.3 percent of employees are automatically confirmed as authorized to work ("work authorized") either instantly or within 24 hours, requiring no employee or employer action.
1.7 percent of employees receive initial system mismatches.

Of the 1.7% of employees who receive initial system mismatches:

0.28 percent are later confirmed as work authorized after contesting and resolving the mismatch.
1.39 percent are not found work authorized.

Of the 1.39% of employees not found to be work authorized:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=7c579589cdb76210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=7c579589cdb76210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD

"USCIS – E-Verify 2011 Customer Satisfaction Survey

Overall Findings and Recommendations
This report focuses on the customer satisfaction of companies currently enrolled in the E-Verify program. Satisfaction with E-Verify was strong last year and improved this year with a three point gain to 85. This is 20 points above the current federal government average. Satisfaction among the other sample groups was very similar. Recent users, those who had run a case since January 1, 2011, had satisfaction of 86, while those who used E-Verify because of the FAR requirement had a satisfaction score of 84. This year there was a slight but significant difference in satisfaction between small businesses (84) and those that are not a small business (87). However, last year both segments rated satisfaction 82, so both have improved." From the Department of Homeland Security U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Customer Satisfaction Survey E-Verify
Final Report September 2011

There is no cost to an employer to sign up and use E VERIFY.

Bye JD1 - you asked for an honest discussion, got what you asked for, then went down the Happy Hour trail, good-bye.